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	<title>Comments on: Open Thread: Giving a talk on lab safety for grad students</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.coronene.com/blog/?feed=rss2&#038;p=1198" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198</link>
	<description>A chemistry blog about organic materials, nanocrap, life in the lab and kittens</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 07 Sep 2010 20:43:33 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Erick</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9533</link>
		<dc:creator>Erick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 May 2010 07:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9533</guid>
		<description>Just take enough care in the laboratory. keep clear lines is necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just take enough care in the laboratory. keep clear lines is necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Chip</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9206</link>
		<dc:creator>Chip</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 18:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9206</guid>
		<description>Very sensible! ... and therefore unlikely to happen.  MSDS&#039;s are apparently CYA documents written by people who have been scared by lawyers instead of the useful informative material you (and I) wish was available..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very sensible! &#8230; and therefore unlikely to happen.  MSDS&#8217;s are apparently CYA documents written by people who have been scared by lawyers instead of the useful informative material you (and I) wish was available..</p>
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		<title>By: Luke Weston</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9205</link>
		<dc:creator>Luke Weston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 04:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9205</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to see somebody start writing short sensible, rational, bullshit-free versions of MSDSs for chemicals, telling people where the real hazards exist - and where no real hazards exist.

For example:

Acetone: Highly flammable and volatile. Avoid ignition sources. Miscible with water - use water for fire suppression. Avoid inhalation and skin contact, but don&#039;t freak out if either accidentally happens because it really won&#039;t hurt you. Don&#039;t drink it.

NaOH: Corrosive. Don&#039;t get it on your skin, and don&#039;t get it in your eyes at all. Flush with water if either of the above happens. Don&#039;t eat it. 

tBuLi: Pyrophoric - ignites spontaneously on contact with air, making it very hazardous. Assuming that the tBuLi is dissolved in a flammable solvent such as hexane, this means that all the carrier solvent will ignite spontaneously on contact with air. Must be stored and transferred under an inert atmosphere at all times, and must be handled with extreme caution. Use great care when transferring it via syringe, and ensure that you&#039;re familiar with appropriate handling practices.

Sodium bicarbonate: Harmless, period.

Sodium chloride: Harmless, period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to see somebody start writing short sensible, rational, bullshit-free versions of MSDSs for chemicals, telling people where the real hazards exist &#8211; and where no real hazards exist.</p>
<p>For example:</p>
<p>Acetone: Highly flammable and volatile. Avoid ignition sources. Miscible with water &#8211; use water for fire suppression. Avoid inhalation and skin contact, but don&#8217;t freak out if either accidentally happens because it really won&#8217;t hurt you. Don&#8217;t drink it.</p>
<p>NaOH: Corrosive. Don&#8217;t get it on your skin, and don&#8217;t get it in your eyes at all. Flush with water if either of the above happens. Don&#8217;t eat it. </p>
<p>tBuLi: Pyrophoric &#8211; ignites spontaneously on contact with air, making it very hazardous. Assuming that the tBuLi is dissolved in a flammable solvent such as hexane, this means that all the carrier solvent will ignite spontaneously on contact with air. Must be stored and transferred under an inert atmosphere at all times, and must be handled with extreme caution. Use great care when transferring it via syringe, and ensure that you&#8217;re familiar with appropriate handling practices.</p>
<p>Sodium bicarbonate: Harmless, period.</p>
<p>Sodium chloride: Harmless, period.</p>
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		<title>By: lmk</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9193</link>
		<dc:creator>lmk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9193</guid>
		<description>just because they&#039;ve done research doesn&#039;t mean they know a lot about safety.  i&#039;m a senior undergrad and did some summer research the past two summers.  my chem safety program at my school is pretty intensive since one of our profs is a volunteer firefighter and writing a book on chem safety (http://www.amazon.com/Laboratory-Safety-Four-Year-Chemistry-Laboratory-based/dp/0470344288).  

I can say that when i left my university for summer research I saw some crazy stuff by undergrads, grad students, and even profs! i was working in a nanofab lab this past summer and we used 6 M HF for etchant.  Almost everyone in the lab just used safety glasses and non-resistant gloves - no face mask, thicker gloves, or even safety goggles!  there were also engineers in the lab who were more freaking out about not having gloves on when they were using acetone - not realizing that it will go right through the gloves and won&#039;t do anything horrible to you.  

i know you talk is probably over, but with safety most people just need to know to be aware of what&#039;s going on around them and not to assume anything.  I know that lot&#039;s of times people want to talk &quot;smart&quot; about safety, going into all the chemical details on how things react and why bad things are going on, but when something goes wrong, that&#039;s not going to matter. awareness is the key.  educate students on what they should be aware of and what to do if something slips by.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just because they&#8217;ve done research doesn&#8217;t mean they know a lot about safety.  i&#8217;m a senior undergrad and did some summer research the past two summers.  my chem safety program at my school is pretty intensive since one of our profs is a volunteer firefighter and writing a book on chem safety (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/Laboratory-Safety-Four-Year-Chemistry-Laboratory-based/dp/0470344288" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/Laboratory-Safety-Four-Year-Chemistry-Laboratory-based/dp/0470344288</a>).  </p>
<p>I can say that when i left my university for summer research I saw some crazy stuff by undergrads, grad students, and even profs! i was working in a nanofab lab this past summer and we used 6 M HF for etchant.  Almost everyone in the lab just used safety glasses and non-resistant gloves &#8211; no face mask, thicker gloves, or even safety goggles!  there were also engineers in the lab who were more freaking out about not having gloves on when they were using acetone &#8211; not realizing that it will go right through the gloves and won&#8217;t do anything horrible to you.  </p>
<p>i know you talk is probably over, but with safety most people just need to know to be aware of what&#8217;s going on around them and not to assume anything.  I know that lot&#8217;s of times people want to talk &#8220;smart&#8221; about safety, going into all the chemical details on how things react and why bad things are going on, but when something goes wrong, that&#8217;s not going to matter. awareness is the key.  educate students on what they should be aware of and what to do if something slips by.</p>
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		<title>By: J-bone</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9124</link>
		<dc:creator>J-bone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 15:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9124</guid>
		<description>Sorry to jump into the conversation late, but the people talking about cavalier know-it-all group members reminded me of something.  When considering their own safety people often forget that the people around them can be a hazard as well.  I may very well know what reaction is running in my hood and be positive that I can go check on it without wearing my lab coat or gloves, but I don&#039;t always know exactly what the guy next to me is doing and if something happens in his hood it&#039;s probably going to affect me as well.

I&#039;m sure that every department has that one grad student that just seems bent on doing their own thing and if something happens to them nobody will be surprised.  If that person happens to work near you then it&#039;s imperative to remain vigilant, even if you&#039;re following all safety protocols.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to jump into the conversation late, but the people talking about cavalier know-it-all group members reminded me of something.  When considering their own safety people often forget that the people around them can be a hazard as well.  I may very well know what reaction is running in my hood and be positive that I can go check on it without wearing my lab coat or gloves, but I don&#8217;t always know exactly what the guy next to me is doing and if something happens in his hood it&#8217;s probably going to affect me as well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that every department has that one grad student that just seems bent on doing their own thing and if something happens to them nobody will be surprised.  If that person happens to work near you then it&#8217;s imperative to remain vigilant, even if you&#8217;re following all safety protocols.</p>
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		<title>By: J-bone</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9123</link>
		<dc:creator>J-bone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9123</guid>
		<description>The safety people at my grad school actually told us to unplug hotplates when they weren&#039;t in use.  Absolutely guarantees they aren&#039;t left on accidentally and also saves energy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The safety people at my grad school actually told us to unplug hotplates when they weren&#8217;t in use.  Absolutely guarantees they aren&#8217;t left on accidentally and also saves energy.</p>
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		<title>By: J-bone</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9122</link>
		<dc:creator>J-bone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 14:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9122</guid>
		<description>HA HA!  Saturday at 9 am?  Take THAT 1st years!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HA HA!  Saturday at 9 am?  Take THAT 1st years!</p>
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		<title>By: Hap</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9115</link>
		<dc:creator>Hap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 23:14:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9115</guid>
		<description>MIT also used ethyl chlorocarbonate as one of their examples (woman drops bottle of ethyl chlorocarbonate sans carrier, explodes on her, ends badly). I don&#039;t think of it being that toxic, but well..

It&#039;s the things that you don&#039;t expect that seem to provide the worst lessons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MIT also used ethyl chlorocarbonate as one of their examples (woman drops bottle of ethyl chlorocarbonate sans carrier, explodes on her, ends badly). I don&#8217;t think of it being that toxic, but well..</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the things that you don&#8217;t expect that seem to provide the worst lessons.</p>
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		<title>By: excimer</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9113</link>
		<dc:creator>excimer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 16:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9113</guid>
		<description>Good points, but I am doubtful such a situation would occur.

1. My talk was to graduate students, all of whom, it is a fair assumption to make, are no longer dependents of their parents, financially or otherwise.

2. Legally, as I am an employee of the school and was at the time acting as an employee of the school, they can&#039;t sue me without suing the school and department as well. Furthermore, the prof who was in charge of the class would be the most responsible party. 

3. This talk goes above and beyond the legally-required lab safety training as mandated by OSHA, which all graduate students are required to go through before they even step in a lab here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points, but I am doubtful such a situation would occur.</p>
<p>1. My talk was to graduate students, all of whom, it is a fair assumption to make, are no longer dependents of their parents, financially or otherwise.</p>
<p>2. Legally, as I am an employee of the school and was at the time acting as an employee of the school, they can&#8217;t sue me without suing the school and department as well. Furthermore, the prof who was in charge of the class would be the most responsible party. </p>
<p>3. This talk goes above and beyond the legally-required lab safety training as mandated by OSHA, which all graduate students are required to go through before they even step in a lab here.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198&#038;cpage=1#comment-9111</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Jan 2010 13:01:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.coronene.com/blog/?p=1198#comment-9111</guid>
		<description>&quot;......have notes from the prof who used to to this seminar, the powers that be decided that it would be best if a senior graduate student did the talk&quot;

I hope that in agreeing to give the talk in place of a faculty member you have considered (and been satsified) with the legal ramifications should an accident happen after your &quot;tuition&quot;. 

Someone&#039;s parents are bound to sue your ass as you &quot;did not tell them&quot; something. A faculty member would probably be at least a co-defendee with the Chair of the department with some University backing / support.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;&#8230;have notes from the prof who used to to this seminar, the powers that be decided that it would be best if a senior graduate student did the talk&#8221;</p>
<p>I hope that in agreeing to give the talk in place of a faculty member you have considered (and been satsified) with the legal ramifications should an accident happen after your &#8220;tuition&#8221;. </p>
<p>Someone&#8217;s parents are bound to sue your ass as you &#8220;did not tell them&#8221; something. A faculty member would probably be at least a co-defendee with the Chair of the department with some University backing / support.</p>
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