We I’ll Never Graduate

January 29th, 2010 by LiqC

α-Oligofurans. JACS ASAP

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25 Comments »

Comment by excimer
2010-02-02 20:53:56

given the, ah, structure, i imagine it will only be soluble in Astroglide.

2010-02-03 03:22:46

LOL astroglide

 
Comment by LiqC
2010-02-03 19:29:33

C’mon, the crystal packing will be all, uhm, fucked up.

 
 
Comment by milkshake
2010-02-03 03:31:51

the thiophene electron pairs: there shouldn’t be any lone electron pairs drawn, thiophene has no lone-pair – donating properties on sulfur whatsoever. In fact the sulfur bears a weak positive charge so if you have a carbonyl oxygen or pyridine N nearby it will flip towards sulfur forming “O electron pair donating to S ” planar arrangement. It is not really a dative bond, only electrostatic effect but it is quite notable in crystal structures of drugs that have thoiphene and thiazole in the molecule.

By the way, in the structure above I think acetylene would be a better link for the two to couple because it is more ramrod-like

Comment by grubber
2010-02-03 04:12:42

Re: lone-pairs.
drawing a lone-pair does not implicate donating ability. the electrons are there, they’re square, deal with it ;P

Comment by milkshake
2010-02-03 07:59:18

they are not there – they are busy huckling around the ring and conjugating themselves.

Furan oxygen has some donating properties but not S of thiophene (I had once a decent inhibitor that lost nearly all potency when furan was replaced with thiophene

Comment by Ψ*Ψ
2010-02-03 10:26:22

no…ONE of the lone pairs on S is in the π-system, one is out.

Comment by milkshake
2010-02-03 11:03:48

I know it should be 6 electons but thiophene behaves like benzene in many respects. So where is the lone pair? I mean you can do catalyzed Friedel-Craft reactions with thiophene and thiophene will not quench the Lewis Acid. have you ever seen a coordination complex of thiophene to a metal like you get, for example, with pyridine?

(Comments wont nest below this level)
Comment by excimer
2010-02-03 12:57:23

That’s because thiophene complexes preferentially coordinate η5, but at least one has been isolated. It does convert to η5. η1-thiophene TM complexes aren’t very persistent, but to say they don’t exist is ridiculous.

 
Comment by Wavefunction
2010-02-04 17:00:22

I agree, but for the sake of pedagogy I think they should have indicated only one lone pair sticking out.

 
Comment by Kit
2010-02-06 02:45:38

If anything, thiophene should be less “aromatic” than furan, right? Worse overlap of a 3p (S) vs 2p (O) orbital with the 2p (C) orbitals? So it’s not totally absurd to draw that orbital separately from the diene. And, as mentioned, the other two electrons are symmetry-forbidden from overlapping with the pi system, so they’ve got to be in a “lone pair”.

I think the acceptor properties have more to do with the low-lying d orbitals on sulfur than the presence/absence of lone pairs.

 
Comment by LiqC
2010-02-06 22:44:18

Oxygen lone pairs in furan have to be distorted to engage in the 6 pi business. In addition, it is too electronegative to contribute to resonance stabilization properly.

As you properly noted, sulfur’s unpaired electrons are not far from d-level. They are significantly more diffuse and more polarizable. I think the low basicity of thiophene can be explained by invoking a resonance structure in which the two lone pairs take turn to be in conjugation, effectively killing any attempts to find them in “lone” state.

As a consequence, of all five-membered aromatic rings, thiophene is the closest to benzene. Compare the physical properties of ThH & PhH and benzoTh and naphthalene.

 
Comment by Kit
2010-02-07 03:02:58

Reading my comment again, I wasn’t nearly as clear as I meant to be. Basically, as I see it, the two lone pairs don’t really have the geometry shown above: whether we’re talking about furan or thiophene, one is pretty much your typical p orbital, perpendicular to the ring and capable of resonating, while the other is more of an sp2 hybrid – coplanar with the ring, pointed out, and incapable of overlapping with the pi system. Same orbital geometries as in a carbene or water (which does not have a tetrahedral arrangement of two lone pairs and two hydrogens). So I guess I don’t understand where distortion would come into play, or alternating resonance forms. You wouldn’t need to distort the perpendicular orbital to have it resonate; it’s already ideally oriented. And I can’t really see any way for them to take turns in conjugation.

As for the electronegativity of O vs S, I’m not really sure what to think of it. From an MO standpoint, the greater electronegativity of O should mean that its AOs start lower in energy than carbon’s, which leads to worse mixing/resonance. Which seems like it could very well be true. But are the carbon (2p) orbitals really farther in energy from oxygen (also 2p) than sulfur (3p)? And then there’s the geometrical overlap – the sulfur orbitals have an extra node in them, right around where I’d expect the maximum amplitude of the carbon orbitals to be. My first thought on this was really just based on an analogy to the bonding in acetone vs. DMSO. From electronegativities alone, you’d think the C=O would be more polar than S=O. But, from what I’ve heard, there’s much more even charge distribution between C and O than S and O, because of the bad overlap between the 3p and 2p orbitals in the latter. One professor I had said it shouldn’t even be considered a pi bond. More like a zwitterion, with a negative charge on the O and positive on the S. Don’t know how much I buy that (the prof wasn’t much of an orbital guy himself), or how well it extends to this discussion. I’m just guessing at all this stuff, so don’t mind me.

 
 
 
 
 
Comment by LiqC
2010-02-03 16:06:02

Boobies: never a bad move! The pairs are there for added sex appeal.

Agreed on acetylene.

 
 
Comment by Anonymous
2010-02-03 09:59:06

dibenzothiophene can coordinate to metals, but I guess that its just a thioether linakge between two phenyl rings.

 
Comment by OrganicOverdose
2010-02-03 18:21:07

Well spotted, gotta love ChemPorn

Comment by LiqC
Comment by OrganicOverdose
2010-02-05 00:15:04

I don’t know if I would like to be turkey slapped with a peptide all day.

 
 
 
Comment by Dan
2010-02-03 18:24:17

I love how a chemical-structure equivalent of 55378008 leads to a serious discussion on electronic structure.

 
Comment by opsomath
2010-02-04 13:05:32

Thienyl S is definitely an acceptor, not a donor. Poly(ethylene-3,4-dioxythiophene) has a narrower band gap than polythiophene largely because the oxygens donate strongly into the neighboring sulfur, holding the whole thing flatter. Also thiophenes have almost no tendency to self-assemble on gold, you can treat them just like benzene rings when designing, say, self-assembled monolayers.

 
Comment by Crystallinity
2010-02-04 17:51:09

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Never quite thought of lone pairs as sexy before. I thought this was the TOC graphic at first and panicked…

 
Comment by Severin
2010-02-09 07:55:38

I dont get the joke 8[

Comment by LiqC
2010-02-10 10:43:41
Comment by eXXi99
2010-02-11 10:26:09

so what? I remember a angew from 1975 with that incredibly hillarious joke…

 
 
 
Comment by JoshPhD
2010-02-12 16:20:11

I love it!

 
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